I took it down because the video wasn't working and I couldn't post a comment on my own blog. not sure what's the deal, but it'll be back up tonight, fuckers.
Beware fuckers....The BTN PP becomes fucking dangerous, especially as strength and efficiency climbs quickly in this fucker. 2 weeks ago my 1RM was 225. Last week I nailed an ugly 10x3. This week I did a much cleaner 10x3. On the last set I worked toward a 10rm - I missed my traps on the last rep and caught the bar on my upper back. My elbow and shoulder ligaments felt like they were about to explode. I finished the rest of my workout w/ FS's and PC's , but my shoulder and elbow fuking hate me right now. Careful, bitches...careful.
I don't think it was lack of common sense on my part, I think it was the fatigue of only using 60 seconds rest coupled with me really pushing it the last set (10rm of a 2 week prior 1rm)that caused me to misjudge the descent. This shit hurts, but it coulda been a lot worse.
For this reason I have found it generally best to use singles when you go heavy on BTN PP. It's really the LOWERING that is the worst on that exercise.
That's been my experience as well. Getting it up and locked, no worries, coming down is a fight between going too slow and mangling the lower triceps (the real weak point for me on the lift), coming down too fast and having an uncontrolled descent, where if it misses the proper drop spot, either tears up my elbows or cracks my skull.
Indeed, today I jumped my weight 20 lbs. on it but still tried doing triples, on the third rep, the descent was real rough and I switched to doubles. :)
I don’t know guys, I hate to be the lone dissenter on this movement, and in light of Jamie’s “risk vs reward” post (well done, of course), to me, this movement is not worth the aggravation. I'll continue to push press in front. I’m glad Jamie is o.k., that could have been FAR worse. Anyway, love this blog!
Yo Jaimie, John here...figured I would pose this question in front of the class for everyone's benefit.
BTNPP rotates your humerus to the point where your AC joint is at its most vulnerable. After two shoulder surgeries (both were osteolysis - I was microfracturing bones in that ocmplex by going too heavy), it occurs to me that prior to going into this exercise full on, you might want to make sure your shoulders are completely good to go - i.e. appropriately flexible, with your rotator complexes strengthened and symmetrical.
This goes against some of your general "just fucking do it" advice. But with appropriate shoulder prep, a missed BTNPP would have a smaller chance of causing injury.
I would think that such an issue would manifest itself during back squats, and that anyone feeling shoulder pain during back squats would not be so unintelligent as to attempt BTN presses. I'm sure, however, that I am placing far too much faith in humanity with that statement, so I will state, for the record:
DON'T BE FUCKING STUPID. IF YOU HAVE HORRIBLE JOINT PAIN ON ANY GIVEN EXERCISE, YOUR BODY IS WARNING YOU OF IMPENDING DOOM.
Would you recommend a newbie to this program? Or should i just focus on my main lifts for now? (putting around 5lbs-10lbs per week on my BP, squat and deadlift)
I have switched out my OHP for BTNPP because it's way more fun. I also prefer to work in the low rep ranges, but i am doing ... Bill starr 5x5 now.
Long story short; Should i switch to CnP already or just focus on my main lifts and strengthening my CNS right now?(no way i could do 1x15 with 90%-95% of my 1RM without taking extremely long rests)
Jamie's recommended a slightly less intense version (higher rep count, around 5 if I recall, lower weights) for a "rank beginner", and with slightly longer rest periods. I can tell you from *personal* experience that I started CnP after lifting for about 18 months. For me, my progress had completely stalled out around 9 - 10 months of lifting (before that, I was like you, the 5 - 10 lbs. gains every week). Since then, I've started making gains again.
More important than adoptong CnP, is your overall attitude. If you want to look like all of the other guys at your gym and push the same weight they do (probably not, if you are honest about your long term goals), workout like they do. If you refuse to accept average as a limit, and want to exceed and excel, then definitely give it a spin. I've been on it since December, and I'm very happy with it. Others who have tried it, some of whom have a lot experience with lifting, some like me who do not, are very happy. I haven't heard anything bad about it *by someone who has tried it*. If someone else has, I'd love to see it, because they will give me some ideas for improvement.
Remember, CnP isn't a workout plan; there is no "CnP Workout", even what Jamie posted a few weeks ago is really just his current workout template, not "the official CnP Workout". My workouts are a bit different from his, and I know I'm doing CnP. There's a few other hooligans with training logs posted that I've read, and they workout differently from me and differently from Jamie. Indeed, part of the CnP creed is individuality and refusal to do something just because others are!
I max at 295 on behind the neck push presses and have just missed 300. To cushion the landing I wear a hoodie with the hood down on days I'm going to do this lift and I put that pad on the bar that skinny new kids put on it when they do squats.
I don't right now. Starting next month, Steve Pulcinella (owner of Iron Sport), Justin James, and I will all be posting our daily workouts on the homepage of the new site.I'll let you guys know when it launches.
Beware fuckers....The BTN PP becomes fucking dangerous, especially as strength and efficiency climbs quickly in this fucker. 2 weeks ago my 1RM was 225. Last week I nailed an ugly 10x3. This week I did a much cleaner 10x3. On the last set I worked toward a 10rm - I missed my traps on the last rep and caught the bar on my upper back. My elbow and shoulder ligaments felt like they were about to explode. I finished the rest of my workout w/ FS's and PC's , but my shoulder and elbow fuking hate me right now. Careful, bitches...careful.
ReplyDeleteHAHA He didn't say to abandon your common sense while lifting ...
ReplyDeleteI'm pretty sure in one of his posts he says ease into it.
ReplyDeleteI don't think it was lack of common sense on my part, I think it was the fatigue of only using 60 seconds rest coupled with me really pushing it the last set (10rm of a 2 week prior 1rm)that caused me to misjudge the descent. This shit hurts, but it coulda been a lot worse.
ReplyDeleteI think that's what is referred to "lacking common sense".
ReplyDeleteFor this reason I have found it generally best to use singles when you go heavy on BTN PP. It's really the LOWERING that is the worst on that exercise.
ReplyDeleteThat's been my experience as well. Getting it up and locked, no worries, coming down is a fight between going too slow and mangling the lower triceps (the real weak point for me on the lift), coming down too fast and having an uncontrolled descent, where if it misses the proper drop spot, either tears up my elbows or cracks my skull.
ReplyDeleteIndeed, today I jumped my weight 20 lbs. on it but still tried doing triples, on the third rep, the descent was real rough and I switched to doubles. :)
J.Ja
I don’t know guys, I hate to be the lone dissenter on this movement, and in light of Jamie’s “risk vs reward” post (well done, of course), to me, this movement is not worth the aggravation. I'll continue to push press in front.
ReplyDeleteI’m glad Jamie is o.k., that could have been FAR worse.
Anyway, love this blog!
Yo Jaimie, John here...figured I would pose this question in front of the class for everyone's benefit.
ReplyDeleteBTNPP rotates your humerus to the point where your AC joint is at its most vulnerable. After two shoulder surgeries (both were osteolysis - I was microfracturing bones in that ocmplex by going too heavy), it occurs to me that prior to going into this exercise full on, you might want to make sure your shoulders are completely good to go - i.e. appropriately flexible, with your rotator complexes strengthened and symmetrical.
This goes against some of your general "just fucking do it" advice. But with appropriate shoulder prep, a missed BTNPP would have a smaller chance of causing injury.
What say you...
I would think that such an issue would manifest itself during back squats, and that anyone feeling shoulder pain during back squats would not be so unintelligent as to attempt BTN presses. I'm sure, however, that I am placing far too much faith in humanity with that statement, so I will state, for the record:
ReplyDeleteDON'T BE FUCKING STUPID. IF YOU HAVE HORRIBLE JOINT PAIN ON ANY GIVEN EXERCISE, YOUR BODY IS WARNING YOU OF IMPENDING DOOM.
Would you recommend a newbie to this program? Or should i just focus on my main lifts for now? (putting around 5lbs-10lbs per week on my BP, squat and deadlift)
ReplyDeleteI have switched out my OHP for BTNPP because it's way more fun. I also prefer to work in the low rep ranges, but i am doing ... Bill starr 5x5 now.
Long story short; Should i switch to CnP already or just focus on my main lifts and strengthening my CNS right now?(no way i could do 1x15 with 90%-95% of my 1RM without taking extremely long rests)
Jamie's recommended a slightly less intense version (higher rep count, around 5 if I recall, lower weights) for a "rank beginner", and with slightly longer rest periods. I can tell you from *personal* experience that I started CnP after lifting for about 18 months. For me, my progress had completely stalled out around 9 - 10 months of lifting (before that, I was like you, the 5 - 10 lbs. gains every week). Since then, I've started making gains again.
ReplyDeleteMore important than adoptong CnP, is your overall attitude. If you want to look like all of the other guys at your gym and push the same weight they do (probably not, if you are honest about your long term goals), workout like they do. If you refuse to accept average as a limit, and want to exceed and excel, then definitely give it a spin. I've been on it since December, and I'm very happy with it. Others who have tried it, some of whom have a lot experience with lifting, some like me who do not, are very happy. I haven't heard anything bad about it *by someone who has tried it*. If someone else has, I'd love to see it, because they will give me some ideas for improvement.
Remember, CnP isn't a workout plan; there is no "CnP Workout", even what Jamie posted a few weeks ago is really just his current workout template, not "the official CnP Workout". My workouts are a bit different from his, and I know I'm doing CnP. There's a few other hooligans with training logs posted that I've read, and they workout differently from me and differently from Jamie. Indeed, part of the CnP creed is individuality and refusal to do something just because others are!
J.Ja
Thanks Justin James,very helpful response :) Going to try this CnP stuff out starting Monday!!!
ReplyDeletelooking forward to it
Very cool, let us know how it goes!
ReplyDeleteJ.Ja
I max at 295 on behind the neck push presses and have just missed 300. To cushion the landing I wear a hoodie with the hood down on days I'm going to do this lift and I put that pad on the bar that skinny new kids put on it when they do squats.
ReplyDeleteThanks J, for covering that one for me.
ReplyDeleteGlen- careful with that padding- it could make the drop slip off your back, which hurt worse than just catching it low.
Jamie- where do you post your workout log now?
ReplyDeleteI don't right now. Starting next month, Steve Pulcinella (owner of Iron Sport), Justin James, and I will all be posting our daily workouts on the homepage of the new site.I'll let you guys know when it launches.
ReplyDelete