14 September 2010

Soy is the Devil, And Not in A Fun Way, 22 1/2

Though I'd prefer to witness a Katy Perry shocker, this will have to suffice.

For those of you who hadn't yet noticed, this blog focuses on the unconventional.  As such, soy's a pretty good topic for investigation, as it's a fairly unorthodox source of protein for a non-herbivore.  Given that both sides of the soy debate have dragged out their gigantic, Goebbels-esque propaganda machines, investigation of this issue gets even more interesting.  On one side you have vegetarians, the government, and massive chemical-agricultural companies.  These groups obviously have a vested interest in disinformation and obfuscation of any evidence pointing to the idea that soy is deleterious for one's health, and a very pointed interest in painting soy as the ultimate protein source.  Derek Poundstone claims to eat soy protein in massive quantities, which makes sense, given that he's sponsored by DuPont, who just built a new soy processing plant- the man makes chicken shakes... he's not getting 25% of his fucking protein from beans.  Think it through.  On the other side of the debate, you've got a bunch of people who are afraid of growing man-tits, and have seen enough studies showing soy to cause health problems to be rightfully scared, especially given that our current living environment is literally awash in xenoestrogens.

Female urine is high in estrogen, especially if they're on the pill.  As such, make sure you're taking anti-e's if you let chicks piss in your mouth on a regular basis.

To wit, here's what happens when animals are exposed to high levels of environmental estrogens:
"An upsurge in the number of male fish growing female reproductive parts is sounding an alarm bell for the dangers of pollutants and estrogen-like compounds in U.S. rivers, where millions of Americans get their drinking water, environmental experts say.
A recent survey of bass in the Potomac River, a major tributary in the nation's capital, found almost 100 percent of the smallmouth bass species were feminized, or had eggs in their testes. In largemouth bass the incidence of feminization was lower, but still highly prevalent.
Some evidence has suggested the chemicals also have a cumulative effect -- at low concentrations, it might take a month or two for the fish to be affected.

Kolpin examines a multitude of chemicals considered emerging contaminants, and some of the most egregious offenders are pills, which may also contain estrogen-like compounds. Drugs provide immeasurable benefits to human health, but there may be a downside, he said. Consumers get little guidance as to how to dispose of unused medication.

Leftover pills flushed down the toilet end up in the sewage system, and medication thrown in landfills could leach into groundwater. Sediments in riverbeds are also highly concentrated areas of emerging contaminant pollution" (Dell'amore).

Imagine a fish that has this going on.

In another study:
"In one lake," he explains, "they treated it with the pharmaceutical that's in most birth control, in a concentration of six parts per trillion -- similar to what we often see in wastewater effluent, although Boulder's wasn't quite that high. They treated it for three years in that concentration, and within two years, they'd virtually wiped the fish out of this lake, because the females couldn't make eggs, and the males were so busy making female protein that they weren't making any sperm."

Shit like this is why I think we should all don our fucking tinfoil hats and say fuck the soy- we've got enough xenoestrogens in our water to make us impotent anyway.  Have you noticed at the degree to which infertility and erectile dysfunction has risen and birthrates have dropped in the developed world recently?  Why add insult to injury?  And what are the studies showing these insults?

In one study of 42 healthy adult males, 
"Diets were isoenergetic, with either 150 g lean meat or 290g tofu daily providing an equivalent amount of macronutrients, with only the source of protein differing between the two diets. Each diet lasted for 4 weeks, with a 2-week interval between interventions. Blood concentrations of sex hormones did not differ after the two diets, but the mean testosterone:oestradiol value was 10 % higher after the meat diet. SHBG was 3 % higher; whereas the FAI was 7 % lower; after the tofu diet compared with the meat diet. There was a significant correlation between the difference in SHBG and testosterone:oestradiol and weight change" (Habito et al).  
This means that, at the very least, your test levels will be higher on a diet eating meat, even if soy doesn't lower your test levels.

Another study describes the short-term effects of dietary phytoestrogens on regular behaviors like food/water intake movement and body weight, prostate weight, prostate health, reproductive hormone levels, and testicular activity in rats. The rodents were then fed either a phytoestrogen-rich diet or a phytoestrogen-free diet, and after 5 weeks the plasma phytoestrogen levels were 35 times higher in animals fed the phytoestrogen-rich vs phytoestrogen-free diets. Body and prostate weights were significantly decreased in animals fed the phytoestrogen-rich diet vs the phytoestrogen-free fed animals and plasma testosterone and androstenedione levels were significantly lower in the animals fed the phytoestrogen-rich diet (Weber, et al).  

The rub?  Sounds like a diet high in phytoestrogens lowers your test levels.  This finding was echoed in another study, which concluded that "soy protein, regardless of isoflavone content, decreased DHT and DHT/testosterone with minor effects on other hormones, providing evidence for some effects of soy protein on hormones" (Dillingham et al) .  A study of 69 Japanese men and soy protein also found a inverse correlation between soy intake and testosterone, however minor, and found that  "soy product intake may be associated with the endogenous hormone levels in Japanese men"  (Nagata, et al).

The Japanese anti-soy.

So, what about that estrogen?  For those of you who are unaware, soy has been prescribed to menopausal women for years as an alternative to estrogen supplements.  Let me restate that- soy is considered to be herbal estrogen.  Why, then, would they claim it's not estrogenic?  It either is, or it isn't.  Instead, the soy industry talks out of both side of their mouths, and no one seems to give a fuck.  "Women who are pregnant are warned to avoid high doses of plant estrogen" according to a site about breast cancer, and "scientists also caution women who have estrogen receptor positive (ER+) breast cancer that phytoestrogens may not be safe."  

Intriguing- now soy's not even good for chicks, due to the fact that it's super fucking estrogenic (Flax).  A five year study at the University of Illinois, however, showed "that the positive or negative health consequences of exposure to soy isoflavones depend on the timing of the exposure (whether it occurs in early, mid, or late life), tissue type (breast or brain, for example), and dose."(Yates)  Positive for non-preggo women, negative for men, I'm assuming.  I did find a study showing that isoflavone content is lower in fermented soy products, which is what the Japanese typically eat, than in unfermented products (like soy protein), which means that if you want to eat the soy in your miso soup, you could be fine with that.  It shows fairly definitively, though, that the US consumption of soy is a fucking highway to hell (Chien et al).

For those skeptics out there who still insist that the anti-soy campaign is nothing but ridiculous scare tactics, I challenge you to identify for whom these tactics are working.  Propaganda does not exist without a motive, and I fail to see one inherent in this movement, as there's no danger whatsoever of the meat-farming industry going belly up.  Thus, think of this what you will, but I know that the only estrogens I plan to ingest are in female urine... provided I have clomid on hand.

You'd do it if she asked you to- and hers is probably high in test anyway.

Habito RC, Montalto J, Leslie E, Ball M. "Effects of replacing meat with soyabean in the diet on sex hormone concentrations in healthy adult males." Br J Nutr 2000 Oct;84(4):557-63.

Dell'amore, C. Growing Concern Over Estrogen-Like Compounds In US Rivers: The American lifestyle of materialism has left an indelible impression on U.S. waterways, and no one knows the exact repercussions.  Washington (UPI) Oct 18, 2006

Weber KS, Setchell KD, Stocco DM, Lephart ED.  Dietary soy-phytoestrogens decrease testosterone levels and prostate weight without altering LH, prostate 5alpha-reductase or testicular steroidogenic acute regulatory peptide levels in adult male Sprague-Dawley rats.
J Endocrin (2001) 170, 591-599

Dillingham B, McVeigh B, Lampe J,Duncan A. Soy Protein Isolates of Varying Isoflavone Content Exert Minor Effects on Serum Reproductive Hormones in Healthy Young Men. J Nutr. 2005; 135:584-591.

Nagata C, Inaba S, Kawakami N, Kakizoe T, Shimizu H.Inverse Association of Soy Product Intake With Serum Androgen and Estrogen Concentrations in Japanese Men.  Nut Cancer; 2000: 36(1) 14 - 18. 

Yates, D. Team to study health effects of botanical estrogens.  Genetic Engineering and Biotechnology News.  http://www.genengnews.com/keywordsandtools/print/2/93377528/

Is Flax the New Soy?  Breast Cancer A to Z.  http://www.a-zbreastcancer.com/articles/aflaxseed.htm

CHIEN HL, HUANG HY, CHOU CC. Transformation of isoflavone phytoestrogens during the fermentation of soymilk with lactic acid bacteria and bifidobacteria.  Food Microbio; 2006: 23(8) 772-778.


  1. Growing up I ate too much soy, but given that I was essentially born a nails eating psycho, I'm fine these days.

  2. also, +1 hackneyed. I know you hate it.

  3. Thanks for this article. I always thought Derek Poundstone was full of shit about his claims of eating so much soy, but now it all makes sense. Soy pisses me off.

  4. Thank you for a good article. I've shied away from soy since a buddy of mine started crying during a Hallmark commercial when he was doing a high soy diet. Fucking vegetarians.

  5. Nice write-up, Jaime.

    I try to stay away from soy, soy products, and any foods high in soy or that have soy listed as one of their primary ingredients. Also I try to keep my regular protein diet as high as I can.

    Results in the gym don't lie.

  6. Goddamn it, is that Asian broad even legal?

  7. "In largemouth bass the incidence of feminization was lower, but still highly prevalent."

    Good thing I've got a big mouth.

    I wonder what kind of an effect female ejaculate has compared to urine. That's kind of like getting a face full of piss. And I've never tasted piss before but I can only assume that cum tastes better. Makes a fucking mess of the bed though. It helps to put a towel under her ass. Keeping baby wipes by the bed is good too.

    Have you ever noticed that people seem to instinctively know what piss tastes like? Like whenever you trick somebody into drinking a beer bottle full of piss they all have the same reaction.
    "What the fuck is that, piss?!"
    Fucking funny every time.

  8. Reading this blog makes all of my friends who are vegetarians annoy me more at a progressive rate.

  9. Fuck Hippies, Fuck Soy...Fuck Hippies.

  10. Agreed.

    I find that man-tits picture offensive in every possible way.
    Seriously, I think it's going to haunt me.

  11. My thinking is that even if the science isn't conclusive, I don't need soy in my diet. On top of that, I like meat. So I'm happy to avoid soy and, ten years down the line, be pleasantly surprised when it's finally shown to truly be the devil.

  12. Glen-

    Squirt tastes a bit different, and somehow manages to wick all of the moisture out of your mouth. If you think it's a mess- get a chick to squirt while she's on the rag, hahahaha. Time to flip the mattress after that. No idea what the estrogen content on that is, but I'd like to be involved in that clinical study.

  13. Soy is not just in your food, I went out to by some body wash to bring to the gym and didnt notice the giant Soy lettering. it body wash who really looks at the label. it had SOY as a main ingredient. waste of 3 dollars.

    As well, i'm sure theres a million other products ive used where i didnt look at the label which may have contained soy.

  14. what! bad news about the female yellow nectar dudes!

  15. Going down the phytoestrogen path, we have: -
    "Our study confirms that an ethanol extract of hops contains a significant amount of phytoestrogens with moderate estrogenic bioactivity." - http://www.cancersupportivecare.com/estrogenherb.html
    Recent data shows that neither soy, nor soy isoflavones, exert estrogenic effects on vaginal or breast tissues in postmenopausal females. [Journal Clinical Endocrinology 84: 3479-84, 1999]
    In monkeys, soy phytoestrogens reduced cholesterol but did not affect the reproductive hormones. [Journal Nutrition 126: 43-50, 1996] - That would lead me to make an incredibly crude leap towards them not interfering with the testes, or make men have moobs.

    "Stephen Holt, MD, writing in Natural Pharmacy, has done the best job of sorting out information about soy... phytoestrogens in soy are far weaker than the potent synthetic or natural estrogens commonly prescribed to women for menopause symptoms." - http://www.mujeresholisticas.com/isoflavones-phytoestrogens.html

    This isn't to say soy is a superfood, it isn't, and the promotion behind it is sickening; but unless you are eating meat from organicly raised animals fed/grazed on organic foods, you are going to be getting nasty stuff into your system : -

    "More than 25% of the beef has been imported from the United States [3], where hormonal steroids including estradiol-17β have been implanted to cattle for growth promotion since the USA Food and Drug Administration approved the first steroid implant in 1956. In the USA, steroid implantation was carried out in 97% of beef cattle in 1999 [4], though the practice is still uncommon in Japan." - http://annonc.oxfordjournals.org/content/20/9/1610.full

    We're all fucked. Apart from me, I slaughter animals with my bare hands and I know what they have eaten.

  16. What's the best pro hormone for an alcoholic. I average 6 to 8 drinks per day and have for the last 20 years. I'm not very strong - little over bodyweight clean and press - but do lift a lot. Perhaps just tribulus? I read somewhere it actually helps clean the liver; not sure if that's true or not. Thanks

  17. I buy generic omega 3-6-9, is there alot of soy in that shit?

  18. to alcoholic, 500mg of test and a 4 week run of dbol (ur livers fucked anyways).

  19. There's a list here of foods that are high in phytoestrogens:


    Obviously flax, soy and tofu are right at the top with tens of thousands of micrograms per 100g but there's quite a few things on there towards the bottom that I eat very regularly such as olive oil, dried apricots, almonds (peanuts until recently), coffee. Multigrain bread has quite a lot. Is the content in these small enough not to matter or are they best avoided altogether?

  20. There's no point in getting yourself into a panic about all of it- storing your food and drink in plastic is more estrogenic than olive oil.

  21. That is also interesting to know.

  22. is there any chance you could post a link to the Chien et al study about fermented soy not being bad? i eat a lot of tempeh and miso so id like to look into this a bit more

    also, as far as the Habito study about replacing meat with soy, the increase in testosterone may have had more to do with the extra zinc in meat than from a negative effect from soy. id be curious to see what the results would have been had both groups been taking a ZMA supplement

  23. Sorry- I just added that http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16943081

  24. Storing food is more estrogenic? Now i can see why Milo carried his steak around on his back!

  25. I say fuck it. I'm outta here. I'm gonna go live out in the woods and kill Bambi for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

  26. I've never gone down while she's on the rag. I'll ride the red river but I have yet to drink from it.

  27. Nate Green has not done a back squat in a year.

    What does he know that we don't?!?!?1?

  28. Being a massive douche can sell books?

  29. He also hasn't grown since puberty...

  30. So what do you drink if you can't drink milk ?

  31. Heh, the advert at the bottom of the page is for menopause cream. Clearly targetted advertising doesn't always work very well.

  32. Why are you guys hating on Nate Green? He can tell us bumbling retards of men how to not only get laid, but have a successful relationship and get jacked in the process.

  33. Alright post. I enjoyed the Naked Gun reference in the title more.

  34. so how do you carry water if not in plastic bottles Jamie?

  35. Gourds made from the hides of flayed pec-fly enthusiasts.

  36. Hahaha. I use hard plastic jugs, as there's no other convenient way to carry it, and they're less estrogenic than soft plastic.

  37. Nice Post.

    The man boobs picture will definitely haunt me. And I thought I had big boobs when I was fat. :)

    I agree, there are too many studies concerning the negative health effects of soy, especially on men. Propaganda is what is spread, but studies show the truth.

    Thanks for the post.
    Ryan "The Fat Loss Informant"

  38. Werd. It really comes down to who has a vested interest in spreading the propaganda. I'm a student of Eddie Bernays, so I feel comfortable discerning bullshit from fact.