tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5835524249360195666.post2404564745390121904..comments2024-01-18T10:01:07.136-05:00Comments on Chaos and Pain: Time To Stir The Pot- A Refutation Of The Science Behind Carb BackloadingJamie Lewishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16182869171233847161noreply@blogger.comBlogger109125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5835524249360195666.post-33087316405341847042017-10-23T12:28:22.977-04:002017-10-23T12:28:22.977-04:00I'll bet you can't guess what muscle in yo...I'll bet you can't guess what muscle in your body is the #1 muscle that eliminates joint and back pain, anxiety and burns fat.<br /><br />If this "secret" super powerful <b><a href="http://muscles.syntaxlinks.com/r/HipFlexors" rel="nofollow">primal muscle</a></b> is healthy, you are healthy.Bloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07287821785570247118noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5835524249360195666.post-60146712306931191532013-07-06T15:34:54.687-04:002013-07-06T15:34:54.687-04:00After I posted the above about my experience with ...After I posted the above about my experience with CBL, I decided to go back to Paleo to see how things changed. The only thing I'm doing different is that after I workout, I have a PWO meal of Protein + creatine + 2 bananas, like I did on CBL. Then I have some more carbs when I get home. Like this:<br /><br />Breakfast:3-4 hard boiled eggs.<br /><br />Morning Snack:<br />Smoothie: 1 banana, 1 scoop of protein, 1 TBSP of MCT Oil, Ice<br /><br />Lunch:<br />Salad with meat or just meat and veggies.<br /><br />Afternoon Snack:<br />Smoothie: 1 banana, 1 scoop of protein, 1 TBSP of MCT Oil, Ice<br /><br />Dinner:<br />Salad with meat or just meat and veggies. (on a day that I workout, I'll have some carbs like Sweet Potatoes or Rice).<br /><br />PWO:<br />Protein + Creatine + 2 bananas.<br /><br />So far, the only thing that I notice different is that I'm not starving in the morning and I night I'm not stuffed like a pig. So I'm starting to question the CBL claims. The one thing that I agree with is the PWO meal. Everything else is just marketing and BS.Paulo Santoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10404683666726269831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5835524249360195666.post-50346018200610091982013-07-05T10:11:17.998-04:002013-07-05T10:11:17.998-04:00 Not feeling like that at all, nor do I wish to. I... Not feeling like that at all, nor do I wish to. I just find it odd that a guy who admitted to occasional cocaine use on one of the podcasts gets all bent out of shape about copping to steroid use. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14998280337447307224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5835524249360195666.post-43897266805013779472013-07-05T10:03:14.150-04:002013-07-05T10:03:14.150-04:00Olly- what you're describing sounds more reaso...Olly- what you're describing sounds more reasonable, but I did pull the calorie recs straight out of the book, as well as the "eat JUNK" rec. <br /><br />So there are either two explanations as I see it... either the book itself is so misleading that the two aforementioned items are not what they appear to be, or CBL as written in the book and the CBL that gets results are two different beasts. If it's the latter, then what on earth is the point of the book, since you just outlined a pretty damn good diet framework in a single paragraph in your above post, no references or mechanisms required? :) Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17987335749007503369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5835524249360195666.post-72271422707928988252013-07-05T08:30:59.684-04:002013-07-05T08:30:59.684-04:00Well, if you read the forums on athlete.io and see...Well, if you read the forums on athlete.io and see what people have been doing on CBL, you won't see many people restricting calories to that extent during the day. Personally (and I know I'm not alone in this) I'm getting at least half of my cals in before workout, and the rest post. 600-800 cals? NO WAY! I couldn't go that low if I tried!<br /><br />If you follow a rough guidelines of 0.5/1g fat per lb of bodyweight, at least 1g protein per 1lb and then figuring out carbs based on how you do in the prep phase... but sticking to the 'cleaner' ones, such as white rice, potatoes, some dextrose etc. then you'll do well. The idea is to spread out the backload over several meals, not pound it all down at once. There's room for some 'junk' in there (depending how you tolerate it really), but in my view (and many others) if you keep the pure refined carbs such as sucrose to a minimum, cut out wheat/gluten, you'll see good results. It's not that complicated. Common sense really!<br /><br />Again though, CBL does not advocate an all out pure refined carbs PWO eating plan... it is absolutely not about trying to wolf down 2 pizzas, 3 tubs of ice cream and a dozen donuts every night lol! That seems to be the view of many people, and I'm not sure why. It's not what the book says and it's certainly not what people who've had success using it have done.<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16264642904519917339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5835524249360195666.post-32355054539691939422013-07-04T20:52:31.933-04:002013-07-04T20:52:31.933-04:00Great! Then neither of us had to waste our time o...Great! Then neither of us had to waste our time on one another. <br /><br />Cheers.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17987335749007503369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5835524249360195666.post-61083107521026640872013-07-04T20:51:50.867-04:002013-07-04T20:51:50.867-04:00Macca- the example of 500 grams of pure sugar was,...Macca- the example of 500 grams of pure sugar was, quite frankly, used as a BEST CASE scenario for absorption. The idea (which I admit, I did not illustrate well), was that even under the best possible circumstances (focusing on the ULTIMATE high GI carbs), your body will not return to equilibrium overnight with a massive carb feeding like that. Forget "junk" and donuts- those things will delay gastric emptying even further- they'll still be halfway through the small intestine at 6 AM. THEN the argument becomes, well, what if you truly DO focus on, say, pure refined carbohydrates with minimal adjuncts? Even that would have its issues... hence the half kilo of sugar.<br /><br />This is a bit like the "fasting" point- I did mention eggs and protein powder- a lot of the specific recommendations are around certain protein blends and mega dosing of caffeine. Yes, technically there's food intake during the day, but the specifics are mentioned so little, and quite honestly the majority of adherents I know simply minimize their caloric intake outside of these few target meals. The section on skipping breakfast talks about hunger control strategies (including coffee), and the calorie recommendations are a bit nuts. I would consider 600-800 calories total before training, including a whole lot of caffeine, to be borderline starving onesself in such a manner that this WOULD make a sorority girl proud.<br /><br />The issue here is that a good bit of the "science" (certainly with regards to claims regarding morning hormone levels) rely on the body being back to baseline, a nearly fasted state, long before waking (which is the only way you'd get the natural GH and cortisol spikes being referenced). With the diet design as it is, this is nearly impossible. Then, the daily feeding recommendations DO more or less keep daily calories so low (before the binge) that it's nearly impossible to take in enough garbage food before bed to really gain weight. Fundamentally, THIS is why it works, NOT because of hormonal magic. <br /><br />Olly- I couldn't agree with you more that a good bit of this is a marketing gimmick- that's my biggest problem. The FUNDAMENTALS of this diet are very old, but "CBL" as written puts layers of bad science on top of a fundamentally decent concept, and in an effort to differentiate, introduces ideas that are essentially bankrupt. The issue here is that these differentiators are the major reason this diet doesn't seem to work for many people- they're simply NOT good additions, and they're based on (as I said), bad science. <br /><br />Again, post workout insulin spike, fine. Moderating cravings throughout the day by minimizing carbs, fine. GLUT4 receptors causing MTR? False. Morning insulin sensitivity? False. Massive junk food feedings after workouts not affecting overnight growth hormone release? False. <br /><br />That is the point. I'm honestly considering writing an actual paper here, rather than an interview, since the conversational format doesn't really lend itself as well to scientific writing. :) <br /><br />Cheers guys, thanks for the responses. (Seriously- I always appreciate critiques and engagement). Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17987335749007503369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5835524249360195666.post-39419863771208476952013-07-04T05:19:05.588-04:002013-07-04T05:19:05.588-04:00I stopped reading when this guys arrogance reveale...I stopped reading when this guys arrogance revealed his ignorance(fibro/lyme). Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07550572147728761652noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5835524249360195666.post-24986836692431254992013-07-03T11:45:12.708-04:002013-07-03T11:45:12.708-04:00I have to agree with Olly D's post above and a...I have to agree with Olly D's post above and add to it a little - You have basically used several statements to discredit Kiefer (and in doing so adding fuel to your argument), but these statements are entirely incorrect.<br /><br />I'm not arguing about the scientific references being valid / invalid, you may well have good points here and I'd like to see them countered, but it makes it hard to take your points seriously when you appear to have fundamental issues understanding Kiefers CLB.<br /><br />The points I'm referencing are<br /><br />"Of course it works- eat next to nothing all day except some eggs and protein powder, pound coffee until you’re tweaked to shit, then only stuff yourself with sugar after your evening workout? <br />Controlling cravings through fasting then binge eating at night makes it hard to take in enough calories for most folks, so they lose weight. Miraculous"<br /><br />Nowhere in Kiefers CBL book, online articles or tube-casts does he actually recommend fasting.<br />What he does say is, that if you want optimal fat loss results you should delay eating breakfast for an hour or two after waking to let cortisol levels to settle down (you can argue the science behind this) - That hardly counts as fasting does it?<br />If you're more focused on performance then simply eat a protein / fat meal as breakfast.<br />When pushed for an answer on how long is an ideal 'fast period', he's again stated that there is no need to fast but if you're hell bent on doing it to limit it to 12 hours<br /><br />Also, there is nothing about starving yourself during the day (or only eating eggs and protein powder) - Simply eat protein and fat meals upto a couple of hours before you train.<br /><br />You have also made reference to eating 500g of sugar right before bed - Again this is not part of CLB. Sugar content is actually to be monitored (due to the fructose content) and nobody is dumping all their carbs in a single meal before bed.<br />Typically people will load up on carbs for a 3-4 hour period starting around 7pm (assuming they train atr around 5pm).<br /><br />Another point to make is that the charts in the back of the book are not target levels of carbs to eat on each backload - They are approximations of the maximum number of carbs your body can store from being fully depleted (a start point for your carb intake is to take this number and multiply it be 1.5 - This is your carb total for the week, spilt if between your backloading days)<br />This point is not well made in the book though, so it's no wonder people get confused.<br /><br />I'd love to see the science stuff argued out, but arguing your point of view using inaccurate statements really doesn't help<br /><br />Peace out!<br /><br />MaccaMaccahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14433560226000465420noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5835524249360195666.post-49181867176712198772013-07-03T07:24:08.481-04:002013-07-03T07:24:08.481-04:00HANG ON A MINUTE... CBL doesn't recommend poun...HANG ON A MINUTE... CBL doesn't recommend pounding down 500 grams of sugar! Where the hell does it say that? I've read through the book, and listened to lots of what Kiefer has said in podcasts and interviews and on YouTube, and I agree there are a few mixed messages going on. Ultimately though, he does seem to suggest that 'clean' carbs, but still high GI ones, see people get the best results... so white rice, sweet potatoes etc. (but also including veges in your diet). The whole ice cream, donuts and turnover thing is a massive marketing gimmick in my view, and NOT what CBL is about. It's a real shame, as I think that's done it a massive disservice. At its core there isn't anything really groundbreaking about CBL... it follows a process than some people have been doing for years, even if they haven't realised it, and as mentioned the carbs PWO idea that is well established. <br /><br />You can literally argue the science FOREVER... there will be no end to that debate. People DO seem to get results with CBL though, when they follow it CORRECTLY and don't go mad with the sugar. Just read the forums, plenty of people are getting on really well with it. This isn't a one size fits all plan though, that's a really important factor. You have to tinker with the carb amount PWO, the number of days you backload etc. Everyone is different.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16264642904519917339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5835524249360195666.post-67834344404490606022013-07-03T07:22:47.052-04:002013-07-03T07:22:47.052-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16264642904519917339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5835524249360195666.post-35759549906165105452013-07-01T02:50:52.937-04:002013-07-01T02:50:52.937-04:00Before I make this comment, let me just say this w...Before I make this comment, let me just say this was a great interview, and I really loved Alex's insight. I'm planning on trying out some of the templates he lays out on his website. <br /><br />With that being said, the whole, "yeah, I deadlift 705 lbs and run a 4:23 mile, but I'm a lousy athlete," thing is irritating as hell. If those numbers are accurate (and I'm not a call-you-out-on-the-Internet guy, so I'll take him at his word), then he is probably the only person in the world who can accomplish such a feat, which makes him, by definition, a world class athlete. Keithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12247369850728922139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5835524249360195666.post-37295709390118949742013-06-30T15:59:26.345-04:002013-06-30T15:59:26.345-04:00Alex,
Exactly. Sincere, debate is outstanding e...Alex, <br /><br />Exactly. Sincere, debate is outstanding exchange. Unfortunately, most people outside of academia or professional litigation do not enjoy a good working knowledge of critical exchange.<br /><br />It's incredibly beneficial to the audience and to society in general - when two or more intelligent individuals armed with advanced market-specific-knowledge get together to exchange perspectives<br />in a solution oriented manner.<br /><br />After all, what the fuck good is there in being right? I'll take truth, authenticity, and best-available evidence positions - all day long over being right.<br /><br />I observe mostly the opposite with....well most everyone. Men especially, when defined by profession, skill-set, advanced knowledge - will warp their intake and perspective to suit their narrative, i.e. position, ideology, framework, etc. If the ego is unchecked, familiarity, selectivity and confirmation (heuristics) bias will reign supreme.<br /><br />I would love to see - a point by point specific, back and forth with any and all individuals that actually have value to add. If the exchange is not restricted to point-by-point - while also accounting for how that specific element integrates into the whole, then much potential knowledge will be lost.....as folks will simply gravitate toward their bias - that is, they will side up with the individual who offers them the least amount of effort to reach their mental comfort zone...<br /><br />Fuck all that - that game is for losers, unchecked egos and little bitches....Hopefully, we can proceed with hopes of significant gain.<br /><br />Alex, my time is limited - yet I would love to get your opinion on several points of interest. I will have to spend a little more time reading and reviewing the elements you highlighted above.<br /><br />Very interesting discussion....I feel for the first time in human history - we are VERY close to deciphering the code and the interplay within....And the more WE ALL exchange in a critical, honest - solution-oriented manner - the faster we get to quality knowledge. <br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09551852016665763837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5835524249360195666.post-46869839383480871542013-06-29T17:53:08.419-04:002013-06-29T17:53:08.419-04:00No resident of anything could be an expert in all ...No resident of anything could be an expert in all field man. I can still remember my ortho head making a wise crack about a double blind test being "two orthopedicians looking at a chest x-ray"<br /><br />When I wrote it, it came out as med school, which was a douchey thing for me let slip, but I mean qualified. Those researchers and individuals working on clinical trials are very specifically educated, with well formed opinions based on sound knowledge and logic. But its the internet, and there was no way to know why and how he formulated his opinion. It rubbed me the wrong way.<br /><br />Anyways cheersThe Verbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08697333833489084768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5835524249360195666.post-40169355142048492062013-06-29T17:33:40.271-04:002013-06-29T17:33:40.271-04:00That's a very refreshing thing to hear.That's a very refreshing thing to hear.The Verbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08697333833489084768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5835524249360195666.post-73946058025099667322013-06-29T16:10:55.262-04:002013-06-29T16:10:55.262-04:00If it can stick to that, I'll be very impresse...If it can stick to that, I'll be very impressed. I'd love to engage in a real debate. As long as it's a real debate. :)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17987335749007503369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5835524249360195666.post-37943037010762668462013-06-29T14:53:18.586-04:002013-06-29T14:53:18.586-04:00Hey man, no disagreement from me there. My opinio...Hey man, no disagreement from me there. My opinion on Fibro, Chiropractic, etc. is worth exactly what you paid to read it. I could say my wife is a physician who specializes in pain management (who influences my opinion more than I'll ever admit). I could say that I worked on six clinical trials over four years on Fibro. But that wouldn't change the fact that it's just an opinion and isn't worth much at all.<br /><br />Which is why the moment I put a dollar sign on something that I say, you'd better well believe that A) I've got the training in that field, and B) I'll back up every word that I say. I'd never advise a client/athlete on back pain or chronic pain outside my scope of practice, or call myself a highly sought after authority in the field, or write a book on Fibro and charge $50 for it. That'd make me a charlatan/hack, and I'd expect the world to tear me a new one for it. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17987335749007503369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5835524249360195666.post-16523022194392765262013-06-29T12:54:26.225-04:002013-06-29T12:54:26.225-04:00Right on C&P....
I can't speak for the re...Right on C&P....<br /><br />I can't speak for the rest of the audience, but I would love to see a critical exchange that strictly deals with specific points of accord or discord.<br /><br />Please, stick with critical points.....Those of us who seek actual knowledge and benefit - CANNOT STAND to hear another shit-ass, ego-on-sleeve exchange....It does get VERY, VERY, VERY tiring hearing someone constantly bitch about "haters" or "gurus" or how the other guy doesn't get it. If those folks would spend the same amount of time in critical pursuit, they may actually have something of value to add. Nobody gives a shit about your ego or those trainers/gurus/blog commenters who don't get it.....Welcome to the real world - where 99.8% of folks don't get it.<br /><br />It also gets VERY, VERY, VERY tiring to listen to someone either highlight their CV or another's CV - for social proof. Just because you have letters following your name - doesn't mean you don't succumb to cognitive folly/error(s). In fact, I have yet to meet an "expert" an any field that is above and beyond approach.<br /><br />Christopher Hitchens put it best, "Picture all experts as if they were mammals."Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09551852016665763837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5835524249360195666.post-4615478824459306082013-06-29T12:43:10.405-04:002013-06-29T12:43:10.405-04:00Fibromyalgia is today's "go-to" cond...Fibromyalgia is today's "go-to" condition for the crafty, life long pill-popper. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09551852016665763837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5835524249360195666.post-74867434879503001522013-06-29T12:33:57.728-04:002013-06-29T12:33:57.728-04:00Kiefer's emailed me and let me know he'll ...Kiefer's emailed me and let me know he'll be posting a video response to this. Keep an eye out for that.Jamie Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16182869171233847161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5835524249360195666.post-87525024055908269342013-06-29T12:31:27.378-04:002013-06-29T12:31:27.378-04:00@Dazz- take it as a fuck yourself. As I stated, I...@Dazz- take it as a fuck yourself. As I stated, I'm under no obligation to answer the question in the first place, and the fact you have the gall to demand an answer is astonishing. The anonymity of the internet makes you feel like a big swinging dick, huh?Jamie Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16182869171233847161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5835524249360195666.post-84274048968610288732013-06-29T10:42:26.123-04:002013-06-29T10:42:26.123-04:00I think he said he's worked on the research si...I think he said he's worked on the research side for years, and graduated a long time ago. I DID go through medical school, and I completely agree with him on both Chronic Lyme and Fibromyalgia, not that they don't exist as conditions but that they're really somatoform disorders, most often treated via antidepressants.<br /><br />As an Internal Medicine Resident, I might not necessarily be an expert in all fields, but I can definitely say we rely on a LOT of non-physicians for advice and information- researchers and individuals working on and around clinical trials are great sources of knowledge, and we definitely give them more respect than you seem to. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5835524249360195666.post-56142733267919378582013-06-29T03:57:51.926-04:002013-06-29T03:57:51.926-04:00One more thing. Its great you're a biochem und...One more thing. Its great you're a biochem undergrad, so you will know a significantly higher amount of details about metabolism and such, but you really outta keep your opinions about disease and diagnosis to yourself until you've gotten through med school. Otherwise you're not being much better than keifer. Stage III lyme disease and fibromyalgia do occur. Just because a significant portion of the population are bullshiting about them to get out of effort does not mean you can go around considering them as fake. Before you start talking about how you would treat what, you should probably put yourself through the educational and examination prerequisites to make such decisions or give such advice.The Verbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08697333833489084768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5835524249360195666.post-62107987537576927242013-06-28T17:52:00.366-04:002013-06-28T17:52:00.366-04:00Let me just say a big Fuck you to Alex V and Chaos...Let me just say a big Fuck you to Alex V and Chaos & Pain.....<br /><br />I really just wanted to chill out for a bit - and spent time doing other things.....Yet now, it appears I will have to re-read, review and participate in this proceeding. <br /><br />Excellent, Excellent, Excellent discussion fellas!!! This is what it is all about. Fuck the ego, Fuck ad hominem, Fuck non sequiturs, false equivalencies, cliches, shit-ass metaphors and the rest....<br /><br />What the audience needs more than anything is critical exchange....the fruitful building of a critical framework....if this is done correctly - the audience benefits.....If dicks swing in the way - the audience loses....<br /><br />Good times, irie. irie.<br /><br />I will stay turned - let's get to some real "higher-ground" here....No being right for the sake of being right....but for the sake of progressing just one step closer to what is.....and not what we want it to be...<br /><br />Thanks guys, great content. Invite the folks that can sit at the adult table....if you are not one of these folks...sit your punk ass down at the fold out kiddie table....<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09551852016665763837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5835524249360195666.post-9781255229698452482013-06-28T12:22:40.287-04:002013-06-28T12:22:40.287-04:00Paulo, I've noticed from a few places that wha...Paulo, I've noticed from a few places that what CBL says in the book isn't really what CBL says. I give up, really. Definitely let me know how the Renegade diet is working out- always interested to see results. Drop me a line if you get the chance.<br /><br />Cheers mate.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17987335749007503369noreply@blogger.com